December 12, 2012

How To Achieve a Level 8 Hair Color, the Most Difficult Of All Colors

 Having had a great question from one of our group members.......I have decided to answer it out here on the Blog.  I just knew the question/answer would help a lot of people everywhere, so I am going to attempt to answer it with a crystal clear answer.  Please continue to ask questions in the group until you understand it clearly. Remember no question. . . is a bad keep them coming.

 My question is with developers. I understand that for each level of lift equals the number volume to use. Ex: 2 levels = 20 volume.  I'm trying to get an existing level 6/7 to an 8/9. So to me, it's 3 levels of lift ( 6,7,8). I was using a 8N and 30 volume. I was getting a 7/8g it looked like to me. Was it coming out really brassy because I was over processing and using too high of a developer?  I should of used an ash because of the underlying tones, but I want a gold. Should I use 8.01 or 8.1 and 20 volume instead?
  Hi S___. ,
Lets break your excellent question down.
First off I don't know who told you that ratio on developers, but it is completely wrong.
This is the correct ratio for them
10 Volume has '1/2'-1 Lift
20 Volume is  1 Level of Lift
30 Volume is 2 to 3 Levels of Lift
40 Volume is 3 to 4 Levels of Lift

This particular Level "8" is the area that so many of you have problems with, its hard to make the change like you are trying to.
I know it seems logical to use the hair color 'you want' to get the color you want.......BUT, that is the opposite of how hair color works. 

First, do you have Virgin hair? If you do, you would have 1 set of rules.
If you have previously colored hair you would have completely other rules.We have talked about this exact topic many times before .....    But, anyway....

I guess it must seem ridiculous but the answers to the Killer 14 questions gets you the solution you want. You must take into account all the factors that are in the 14 questions in order to achieve your desired color. If you have VIRGIN color, then you only need 4 -5 of them!
But, I would  be sure on your hair by strand testing the color before hand.

When you are choosing your hair color formula, you must take into account the color that are in the hair strands themselves. Hair Color is not solid when it goes on, it is transparent, like a nylon - - think of all the strands of your hair as legs - and your legs are the color you were born with - for you a Level 6.5. For this example you are saying your VIRGIN color is Level 6.5.
You say that you "want gold" tried gold and it showed you just what I am trying to added Gold to hair that already had tons of gold in it. Everyone is different - therefore everyone has a different amount off gold and brass and orange and that is why there isn't 1 small book with how -to-color hair that everyone can use........There just are too many variables.... that very few people truly understand.   But as the hair lightens - which is "LIFT" Here is the chart of how the hair lightens

The hair contains ALL THE WARMTH- - ALL the Gold -- ALL the BLORANGE - - ALL the orange and all the red in the world already, so if it has the warmth, there is no need to add anymore. This one fact is why 1/2 the women at Target have brassy hair. This is why box color kits don't work......because they have not put the proper formula in the box, they add warmth to those formulas, in the bottle.

There is no need to add more warmth.....see the level of hair on the left...........see the DURP : Dominant Underlying Remaining Pigment  that appears as you "lift" (or lighten) the original hair color .... so you can see all the warmth in the hair appear as you lighten it...It differs from ethnicity's as well. Hispanic/Asian/Italians. So what I am saying is they developed the colors to work on white hair, which is why you must add a couple different colors to get the perfect result.

Those tones you want are in the hair already...that is why I say the hair color is transparent

 So, for the rest of your questions.............yes, you could use one of 3 formula's...........try to get used to the idea that you do not pick your formula from the hair color swatches..........try picking it from your study of hair color formulating.

I know its was confusing for me and every other person....I keep trying different methods of explaining it, because every one's brain works a different way.  In 15 years in the Salon I never once used a color from the "G" category (so GOLD !) - even at the beginning when I was fresh out of 2 years at Vidal Sassoon....and without all the heads of hair of experience under my belt.....I would strand test all the time.....I started to realize in that first year that they must have put that category in the charts to appeal to every one's 'sense of color'. Sense is what appeals to you as you look at it, not what you should use because that is how the Universal hair color system works.

So to get you your formula and hope just 1 more person now is closer to understanding how the Universal Level System, works.'
Use Wella Koleston Perfect as it has nice medium blonde's
You may use anyone of these 3 formula's (if you have virgin hair,only).
The rules change when you have hair color on the hair - remember have to remove the old hair color - and re-arrange the formula....

Now, if you really want to try this, I would highly recommend joining the new FACEBOOK GROUP ..I can't just give one formula as there are many things to consider, ESPECIALLY each person's DURP.

please join the new FACEBOOK group and I will help you determine if this color will work on you --
Remember my saying .....not every person can be any color.!
But if YOU can be A LEVEL 8, I will tell you.
Remember ...........Strand Test .............Strand Test..........Strand Test !

I hope that helps and thanks for your Question . . .keep them coming. . . .
Yes, she is correct 10 volume leaves a line of demarcation as does any Volume but 0!

29 comments on "How To Achieve a Level 8 Hair Color, the Most Difficult Of All Colors"
  1. This comment has been removed by a blog administrator.

  2. I know this was not directed at me, but thank you for this information! I am the exact same level (6.5 virgin), but would like to achieve a COOL level 8 or 9. How would my formula differ if using x-factor?

  3. Im a 7 naturally but now have highlights and want to go to a 8. Roots are visible followed lower down by highlights so what wouldn't I need to do to to achieve a 8 all over with out lighter ends and what developer would I use x

    1. I never just answer a question like that. There are too many factors to take into account in order to get the proper color. I call it the Killer 15 questions. With proper answers to all 15 questions I can solve almost everyone's hair color issues. Join our Group and for a very low $$ ....I will help you 1 on 1....KC

  4. I was thinking about dying my hair using dye from a box but after reading this im just going to a salon. Its too complicated and i dont want my hair to be brassy or come out as a different color than ive been dreaming about.
    THANK U! :) this was very helpful.

  5. im stuggling with nat level 4 target level 7...... i haved vowed this day fwd to ALWAYS level check & did the level finder math.... nat level 4 - target level 7= 3 then -3 + 7= level 10 ..... now we would use 30 vol because lvel 4-7 is 3 levels correct? we need a Blue base & our color choices are 9B & 10AV...... i was hung up on level 10 & used 10AV 30vol result was orange of course.... was level 9B + 30 vol correct then?????

  6. Hi KC, I have a question about something you mention above... you say a 10 volume developer has '0' lift - deposit only. If it does not lift at all, what is its purpose? Why not just use purple conditioner to tone yellow blonde shades, instead of using a toner + 10 volume developer? Going by a 10 developer having no lift, Wouldn't a purple conditioner 'deposit' that color over the existing hair color, without any developer at all? Please explain!

    1. NO-no-no, you have the concept mixed-up. Depositing color on the hair is good for many reasons, if you use QUALITY hair color. There is a huge difference in low quality and high so first always watch out for that. Also depositing hair color is not just for blondes, its for all hair colors.

      First of all not everyone is a blonde which is what your question kind of infers. There are a zillion colors of hair out there!

      As a redhead I use Color Touch to deposit copper pigment to my lengths every few months in order to achieve shine, silkiness, to give my hair luminosity AND more pigment.......that more pigmented that is deposited helps contribute to shiny and tangle-free hair. Having more pigment in the hair works wonders on hair after we begin aging. Almost everyone starts having their hair color pigment start fading into the "NO ZONE" which to me, means that the hair becomes kind of a 'no - color' hair color. So for this type of hair coloring we need a hair color and a developer that just deposits color pigment into the hair strands, which is why Color Touch or Illumina ( both by Wella) - using 6.......... 10....... or......... 13 Volume Developers just rock for that purpose.

      If you have never tried hair color just solely for the purpose of depositing color (your own) I would highly recommend it - it is one of the marvels of hair coloring, that millions of people use.
      Maybe you are too young to realize this but I have seen it happen in teenagers... It hasn't been about covering gray in decades.

      Also there are hundreds of colors of toners - even thousands of various colors - because the colors can be mixed to make a zillion different shades. So your purple conditioner would be only for blondes and only for eliminating brass. That is a teeny tiny fraction of what the concept is used for. If you are interested I always recommend to people to read the Blog from the beginning to the end, you will receive a wonderful education on hairs health and hair color.

      Make a weekend of it....!

  7. 9B does not mean "BLUE" - on the contrary it means "beige'' which is not going to fight any DURP. So NO-NO-NO that would be incorrect.
    First of all is your Level 4 hair "natural'', in other-words 'VIRGIN' (or never dyed??) because that is the one and only way that math works and in today's world it is so very very rare to come across anyone with Virgin hair...........and ESPECIALLY - anyone on this web site ! ! !
    So, please halt what you are doing, and maybe join our Group or at least read the Blog Cover to Cover, because then you we be schooled in the general rules of hair coloring and it should prevent you from making any horrendous mistakes, or at least that was the goal of the entire thing!

    thanks, KC

  8. I think I know where the 2 levels= 20 volume stems from; when Matrix came out with So Color, we had an in-salon class and also saw it at a hair show, and they told us 1 level = 10 vol. , 2 for 20 , 3 for 30 and 4 for 40. They even said it was an easy way to remember it.

    1. Just because they taught that does not mean it is true. That is not the true facts about developer, after 100,000heads and many years of my own education I know that is not true. If we truly got 4 levels of lift out of 40 Volume then we would be using High-lifts a lot more with successful results ! 10 Volume just deposits.
      hope that helps,

    2. Yes you can lift virgin hair with 10 vol, Eileen you are correct it's 1 level 10 vol, 2 levels 20 vol, 3 etc. Timing is everything. You can lift 4 levels with 40 vol and a high lift color, plus the high lift cuts the undertones. Your hands are not tied to using bleach to achieve 4 levels or more.

  9. My hair was a level 10 and I wanted to tone it to about a medium blonde. I purchased a level 8N permanent dye and mixed it with 10 volume developer since it was darker than the color I already had. I also used a protein filler since my hair was very porous on the ends and the color never takes evenly. After I used the color my hair was about a level 5-6 or so. It appeared to be a light golden brown. The color turned out very even but it was much darker than I had expected for a level 8. I still like the color, but why would it have came out so dark? Should I have used a higher volume developer even though I was going 2 levels darker than the color I started with?

    1. There are a million and 1 reasons that may have happened.......
      brand of color
      You never tone with a "N".......there is no Tonal color in Neutral
      Its probably the quality of the color you used is my guess...
      not enough information to give a solid answer

  10. plural of "blonde" is not "blonde's", there is no apostrophe,
    apostrophe is used when something belongs to somebody (saxon genitive),
    by the way english is my second language

  11. Some people just have a head for those things.....
    mine is not one.
    I have apologized profusely from the beginning for mistakes like that and I will continue to.
    I spell check and that does not work well.
    but thanks.

  12. First I just want to thank you for answering specific questions in detail. I'm so glad I came across your site. So much help and knowledge! Ok here goes..

    I have the unique (or maybe not so unique) problem of having too warm a base (was medium brown, then box lightened to a cinnamon shade), and cool highlights. Now I'm trying to make it less Ginger Spice, and more cohesive.
    The back story : I told my stylist that I'd like to correct my base (make cooler), then add highlights. She applied Redken 7nb-30dev to my base, and a 9b with 30 dev, for my highlights. My base came out a nice neutral light brown. Looked good in the salon, but when I got home, I realized the application was very patchy and not natural at all. She did start the highlights under my first layer of hair, but Jeez, when you lifted up that first layer it was completely golden. I wasn't happy with the application or the color contrast (my highlights were very yellowy despite the beige color choice)

    So I went to Sallys and got Colorfix and took off all the color, leaving my base a bright rusty orange, and my highlights yellow - orange. I then applied wella T10 toner with 10 developer. It's better for sure, the highlights really took well to it, but the base is still a warm rusty color, albeit a bit more muted.

    So what's going to help me here? My highlights look lovely like champagne, but my base is still much too warm. I have a 10 and 20 developer, and a wella 8n in my arsenal. I also have more t10, and a t14 on the way because I read that the t14 is better for combating the red tones. I'm thinking something like Jennifer Aniston's signature color - light brown /blond highlights might work for this range. Really, I'm open to the results, I'd just like to get it all neutral or cool tones.

    Help Killer!

  13. Donna,
    That is a very complicated problem for right here, in this little spot. if you truly want to fix it please don't tell me the hair colors "you have"............hoping that will help.
    That is a large part of the problem.
    YOU NEVER- EVER use hair colors just because you ''have them''. You use the proper hair colors that fight warmth which are Ashes, Violets and Matt's, Wella is the line you need. Their professional line - Koleston Perfect or Illumina can solve all those problems.
    But you have layers of mistakes, you really need to start over and
    #1: never remove hair color with anything from Sally's.
    You will only have damaged hair as a result....their quality is so poor.
    I don't mean to be rude.....start reading the blog.....

    This Blog is about becoming educated enough to answer your own questions....about your own hair.

    If you read more you will be able to begin your road to recovery...I am sure of it, If all else fails join the Group when it re-opens....

  14. You say never to use anything from Sally's. Yet in the next sentence you inform a woman to use Wella which is in fact sold at Sally's. So not trying to be rude but telling thousands of woman who read your site not to purchase product at Sally's because it's poor quality is a huge mistake as Sally's Beauty Supply has great quality product and upscale names under their belt. Sally's is where I personally purchase ALL oF my Wella colour and toners not to mention the staff is absolutely increadable.

  15. I would not do anything so silly I guarantee you. Wella makes 13 different lines of colors and 2 different qualities. Professional and public(low-rent). Their low rent brands are called Color Charm & Tango with lower quality ingredients, a very cheap price,even the developer is low standards is one that just seems to trash peoples hair..... that is what they sell at Sally's.

    Professional Lines are:
    Koleston Perfect
    Color Perfect
    Color Touch

    Low-Rent Brands:
    3 types of Color Charm

    I receive 1000's of emails and comments from people everywhere all year long and the most complaints in those thousands is from the products purchased at Sally's and the incompetent staff that cons people into buying products that ruins their hair. So that is where I get my information from along with the fact that when starting this Blog and store nearly 9 years ago, I wasn't going to use the professional products to sell to the public because it was such a bad thing at the time I bought a few brands of color at Sally's tested it on some hair models and decided it was so bad that I simply would NEVER put my name on what it produced ....which is why I changed my game plan. Sally's ex-Staff members have written me here and told me they were forced to sell their own line first, no matter what and they are not educated in color they are just setting their customers up for disaster which is why many land right here, same as you.

    You must be one of the lucky ones but I guarantee you - - you are not one of the majority. I'm happy for you, it makes my stomach turn to hear bad hair color stories.

  16. I have bought Wella kolestone perfect and illumina. I also have bought wella color tango both of the boxes have similar ingredients. Please explain then how is it inferior?

    1. When a formula for a Personal Care product is designed, both products can have the same ingredients is the QUANTITY of those ingredients which can completely change the design, the reaction, the feel, just about EVERYTHING regarding the outcome of the product. There are thousands of OILS out there, but not one of them creates the results of our GLEAM...why is that? We use massive quantities of the most expensive Oils on the planet, which makes GLEAM, completely cure hair damage. It really does and I have no hesitation saying that.

      Just give yourself HOT OIL(lots OF)TREATMENTS with GLEAM OIL every single day and then at night apply overnight Treatments of THRIVEN for the complete HAIR DAMAGE RESCUE KC.

      ITs the QUANTITY of ingredient not the fact that its on the label, they can put 1 gram of Rosehips Oil in a product than are allowed to put the name "ROSEHIPS OIL" on the label just the same as if we do who puts over 50% of the TOTAL formula is Rosehips Oil !

      That is your difference!


  17. I started out as a medium auburn brown with some white coming in at the roots. I wanted to be a light ash blonde. I lightened my hair using a 30 Vol for 40 mins at the ends and then applied it to the roots for another 20 mins. I was told to use Wella T18 toner with a 20 Vol afterwards. But it did NOTHING! So I deep conditioned for a week and then lightened again using a 20 Vol because that's what I was told to do since I didn't have too many more levels to go to get to where I needed to be and that it would be more gentle on my hair. I didn't apply it to the roots because they were already light enough. I left it on for an hour but it still had an orange hue at the ends. So then I was told to use the Wella T28 toner with a 20 Vol. I left it on for the full 30 mins and can see a big difference from the first time. But it still has some orange in it at the ends! It's too soon to lighten again and I'd like to avoid doing it again if at all possible. I was told by one person to put an 8N on the roots and a 7N on the ends, another person said to mix an 8N and 8A and put it all over and that would even things out. I'm so lost as to what I should do now! If there's any way to post pics on her to show you the process please let me know. Please help.

  18. I really need to know of a box color that is the equivalent of ION 8N & 8G. Sally's gave me horrible advice and gave me Wella color charm T18 toner. However instead of a nice blonde I have completely gray hair! I have a ton of coupons for box color because I have so much hair it takes 2 HELP PLEASE

  19. Hello !... I've been dreaming out silver grey hair for months but didn't really want to dye my hair. All through out my teens I did such horrif things to my hair and I had achieved healthy virgin waist length hair for the last 3 years. I recently cut it to about mid back because my hair was very heavy giving me all sorts of headaches and neck aches . After a new cut I feel robbed of beauty. I loved my long hair. It was a big part of my confidence. And I cut it. Now I'm just this ordinary mid back length hair kind of a girl. I think it's time for something drastic and silver is just the thing. I have virgin hair and I don't know which level of developer I use to lighten to get a level 10. Since my hair is virgin. I am confident I can do this alone. I am looking into Kenra no ammonia lighting lightener with a level 30 all over not at the same time of course. Is that a good idea? I want to not damage my hair but achieve exactly what I am looking for. I love Kenra and guy tang products ! I am waiting for guy tangs silver color to hit the stores April first. What do I do?

  20. I have 100% virgin hair looking to achieve silver grey hair. How would one go about that ? I am looking at Kenra no ammonia lightener with Kenra 30vol developer? Is that correct? After applying a silver grey dye if used with olaplex conditioner to thin it out ? What do i do !!?

  21. Much more information needs to be analyzed than that....going silver, always needs to be started by going platinum FIRST, then color Silver. UNLESS you have 100% VIRGIN Silver hair then in that case would just leave it.... as is.
    We don't use Olaplex..we don't find it necessary.

    If you do not understand Color Theory and hair color formulating FIRST, the results will never be correct

  22. Hello I just wanted to ask I have currently got orange/yellowish about a level 6 bleached hair as a dip dye. I was just wondering if using a 30 vol bleach for say 20 min would lighten it to a more blonde colour or a level 7 since I plan on going neon orange anyway. I just want a blondeish base since I may remove the orange colour and go another. Thank you. (This was all done on darkest brown virgin hair)

  23. ONCE YOU HAVE USED BLEACH ON HAIR , YOU MAY NOT FOLLOW IT UP BY USING HAIR COLOR IF THAT IS WHAT YOU ARE REFERRING TO.The one and only way I recommend getting that orangish tint out, is by reapplying a gentle creamy-oil blu/violet based kit. The fact that I have figured out how to get a vivid violet/blue tint into the creamy oil bleach base gives one an incredibly orange & yellow-free hair, + its shiny too because of all the lipids. Its worth the extra money, and I understand costs involved doing all procedures.
    You will spend MORE $$$ trying to fix blonde hair, rather than just starting out using our special 1-OF-A-KIND Violet/Blue Creamy Oil Bleach Base Kit to begin with ! ! !


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